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Cake day: June 14th, 2023

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  • I would say that, but… there are a lot of, for example, Japanese companies that have been around for decades or centuries making great stuff the way they always had. Unless you’re saying Japan isn’t a capitalist country (I’d love to see how that argument plays out), I’d say there’s some difference in company culture that leads to enshittification.

    I’ve heard in some cases it happens when a new CEO takes over and they have no respect for the existing culture, and just want to “make their mark” by chasing short term profits.



  • It’s easy to get mad at people for not knowing the things we know. It’s incredibly frustrating. But then they know things we don’t. Turns out there’s way too much stuff to know and we can’t all know everything.

    Modern life is unbelievably complicated and everyone is failing to manage that complexity to a level that would satisfy all the idealists. In light of all that, I find it hard to blame them for it.




  • All I said was that the data supporting your claim (hunter gatherers are more violent, period) was much less clear than you made it seem. You never successfully showed how Pinker’s book provided any evidence for that claim in the period prior to the agricultural revolution. The paper I linked pointed that out at the outset (that almost all the data is from post-agricultural H-G life). You then had to go off and drive yourself crazy tilting at windmills and attacking arguments I never made.

    Anyway, some other points that make you look silly:

    You took the term “resource-sharing” to mean “gift economy” which is ridiculous. For Hunter-gatherers, resource sharing is as simple as different groups passing through an area at different times, using the same food and tool resources that area provides, without entering into violent conflict over territories. When you don’t have a concept of “land as property”, you don’t have wars of conquest.

    Then you go on to rant about carrying resources being more difficult (duh, Hunter-gatherers follow their resources, not carry them), hunter-gathering lifestyle being economically disadvantageous, and sedentary societies having big advantages here. This is arguing against a claim I never made (that H-Gs are economically superior). I said (at the outset) that the series of developments leading to modern society was actually a series of tradeoffs. That we’ve sacrificed everything H-Gs had (leisure, community, culture, and song) at the altar of economic growth.


  • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.worldto Memes of Production@quokk.aufull egoism
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    6 days ago

    If you’re a fifth of the way through, then you missed this part:

    96% of human history happened prior to the agricultural revolution; if we only focus on the last 4% of human history, we will get a distorted picture of patterns and long-term trends in human violence.

    Pinker’s book doesn’t support your argument because it never attempted to do so. It’s answering a completely different question.

    Talking about Hunter-gatherers when they were warring for survival against agriculturists (a 10,000+ year gradual annihilation of Hunter-gatherers leading to the present day, where they’re on the brink of extinction) doesn’t tell you anything about what they were like for the hundreds of thousands of years prior.




  • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.worldto Memes of Production@quokk.aufull egoism
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    6 days ago

    The data is not nearly as clear as you’ve implied. It’s much more clear that there was a lot of violence in the early subsistence agricultural period and much less violence in the period immediately prior to that. This is consistent with theories of food storage raiding and warfare between agricultural villages and their nomadic neighbours. It’s also consistent with the emergence of the warrior caste as a specialization made possible by long term food storage, not a nomadic lifestyle.

    But anyway, my critique was never intended to be a solution. I don’t deal in solutions, except when I’m doing math. The real world has very few solutions and very many problems with only tradeoffs between opposing interests.

    What I’ve heard of Hunter-gatherer lifestyles comes from first hand accounts of people living the lifestyle, both historically (in the North American colonial period) and in the modern day (anthropologists living in Hunter-gatherer villages).


  • That’s always been a valid line of critique. Pursue it far enough back and you end up arguing that agriculture was a mistake and that we should return to the nomadic hunter-gatherer lifestyle.

    From what I’ve heard of the lives of hunter-gatherers (lives of leisure, culture, community, and song), it’s hard for me to think of much of a counter-argument apart from modern medicine and especially maternal health care. Everything else comes with tradeoffs.