You’re so literal-minded it hurts

What did I say was wrong? Were the Uyghurs included in this poll or not? (Note that not every sampling bias is evidence of a communist plot)

Oh you’re just fucking exhausting aren’t you

Sure thing bud. Maybe for your next objective reality-based poll you could poll some Uyghurs

No, I just inferred you were a tankie by your lemmy.ml account and your defense of China

Like Ive said numerous times before, I don’t care if the system meets your standards of purity. All I care about is if the election was democratic enough to hold the American people responsible. And that doesn’t even seem to be something you are disagreeing with at this point. You’re just getting your panties in a twist because “America” and “democracy” seems to be some sort of tankie trigger word for you

You seem to be confusing “being able to vote for Trump” with “the system being democratic.”

Well, that makes it democratic enough for them to have not voted for Trump and, like I’ve said repeatedly, that’s all that matters in this context

If a driver doesn’t press the brakes because he was on his phone, but also the brake lines had been cut so it would not have mattered if he had, then would you say the driver is completely innocent?

Right. So your position is that the American people didn’t vote for Trump (even though there was no mass voter fraud, and they had another candidate they could have voted for) but they still would have voted for Trump even if they could have.

Gotchu.

Show me where I disputed that claim, ever.

Okay, so you agree. Great.

Tell me then: if America is not democratic, then why do Americans bear responsibility for the state of their leadership? Compare: I don’t blame Chinese citizens for Xi Jinping because the Chinese people literally have no control over his tenure in power. So if America is, like China, not a democracy, then why should I not give the American people the same grace?

Nice try. But this “goalpost” was introduced by you when you decided to take issue with my use of the term “en masse”. At no point did I ever assert that a literal majority of Americans voted for Trump. The actual goalpost I was forwarding (that Americans bear responsibility for the current state of their leadership) is something that you seem to be trying to divert attention away from, probably because you’ve realized that any argument against that position is going to sound silly

Right. So you’re talking about the voting habits of Americans, and I’m talking about the voting habits of Americans, yet we are still somehow talking about “completely unrelated” topics. Okie dokie then

Look at yourself. You are literally crossing out what I said then inserting your own words into your quote of me. Then you announce triumphantly that I’m wrong, due to this fictional quote that you just made up.

Maybe its time to put the phone down bud.

Sorry, having trouble finding the words “enough” or “flawed” in there.

So every time I talk about American democracy I have to explicitly qualify my statement to assert that it’s flawed, or else you assume I’m saying it’s perfect? Yeah okay makes sense

Completely irrelevant to what I said.

You said this:

you know that you can’t say “a majority”

You said I can’t say “a majority”, so I said “a majority”. Makes sense to me but I know Americans are notoriously bad at taking criticism so your mileage may vary

That’s not your only assertion. You’ve asserted repeatedly that the US system is democratic, and yes, you are completely wrong about that.

If you reread my earlier comments, my exact wording was that it is “democratic enough for the test of the world to hold the American people responsible.”

I was never saying that it’s a perfect democracy. And to act like I am “completely” wrong in calling it a democracy is disingenuous; the US may have flaws but it’s not at the same level as Russia or China (both of which are “completely” not democracies).

although “en masse” is doing a lot of work here, you know that you can’t say “a majority”

A majority of people either voted for him or were complicit. Trump voters + nonvoters = a majority. So yes the majority of Americans are morally culpable here.

Because you’re making assertions about it

My only assertion is a very simple one: Trump wouldn’t have won if the American people didn’t vote for him en masse. Am I wrong about that?

Reread my message. I said it was cringe to not admit that the American people messed up. I never said you personally were cringe.

Me being cringe does not alter the reality of what the US political system is.

Why is it on me, as a non-Americian, to understand the ins and outs of your political system? This point is moat because I don’t give to shits about your political system. You’re right: I don’t understand it. But I also don’t care to. Don’t make your problems my problems. It is typical American arrogance to assume that a nonAmerician should care about your internal politics.

I care about how your country is impacting the rest of the world. And this was something the American people can and should be held responsible for, because they could have prevented it literally by doing anything other than voting en masse for a pedophile to lead your country.

Is that enough for a system to be considered democratic?

It’s democratic enough for the rest of the world to hold Americans responsible for bringing Trump into power.

It’s wild how you can just change objective facts about the world by declaring the person saying them cringe.

Stop with the cope and just admit that the American people fucked up. Your unwillingness to do that is what’s cringe.

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Yes, democratically. He was elected democratically twice. If you deny that Trump was elected democratically then you’re no better than the Trumpies who say Biden stole the 2020 election. And you think shilling for delusional conspiracies like that is going to make you look any better from an outsiders perspective? It doesn’t.

Save me the pity party. You guys democratically elected Trump. To act like Americans are just helpless victims in this is pathetic.

Edit: worth noting that you guys elected him twice. You guys knew what you were doing.